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Showdog.com Forum · American Cocker Spaniel

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Author Topic : Majors
 Clwyd Cockers
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10/31/2017 11:56:17 PM reply with quote send message to Clwyd Cockers Object to Post   

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Holy CRAP!!
We now need 10 bitches to make a major/????
WTF?

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Last edited by Clwyd Cockers on 10/31/2017 11:56:43 PM
 Blue Moon Collies
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11/1/2017 5:56:03 AM reply with quote send message to Blue Moon Collies Object to Post

We now need 8 bitches to make a major in collies. I've never seen that number so high in my breed but apparently some people thought it was ridiculous to only need four to make one. The number has doubled since September 1st.
 rowanw
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11/1/2017 5:59:32 AM reply with quote send message to rowanw Object to Post

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I just came back from hiatus to this.

I'm in Collies too. (rhondacline)


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Last edited by rowanw on 11/1/2017 6:00:11 AM
 Comet Poodles
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11/1/2017 7:03:59 AM reply with quote send message to Comet Poodles Object to Post

Well, some users did voice concerns about one user entering all of their dogs nightly. This is the result.
 Supernatural85
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11/1/2017 7:10:29 AM reply with quote send message to Supernatural85 Object to Post

I think Kuvasz have it the worst. Something needs looking at when a breed with only 196 dogs total needs 48 bitches to get a 5 point major. To put it in context Great danes are the most popular breed on the site and there are 832 of them. You only need 20 bitches for a 5 point major.

To need a quarter of the breed to enter (and only bitches at that, which takes the possible number of possibilities down further) is simply not attainable.
 El Dorado
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11/1/2017 8:20:30 AM reply with quote send message to El Dorado Object to Post

Exactly....Which leads back to my other post concerning the Kuvasz

www.showdog.com/forum/read.aspx?id=764734

That topic seemed to hit a nerve in one player.
 Alibi
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11/1/2017 9:57:30 AM reply with quote send message to Alibi Object to Post

Yes it's one user with family accounts in several breeds, it seems all of their breeds have had major hikes in major numbers.
There was a discussion about it and the user claimed that while correct, they could play how they wanted, they also claimed that entering their dogs the way they do wouldn't affect the point schedule, clearly this is not true and we are seeing the results here.
 Willowcreek
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11/1/2017 10:05:03 AM reply with quote send message to Willowcreek Object to Post

10 bitches in shelties now...

he table below details the point schedule for the Shetland Sheepdog breed effective Wednesday, November 01, 2017.
1 2 3 4 5
Dogs 2 3 4 8 11
Bitches 2 3 10 16 22
Point schedules are calculated based on the amount of entries during the previous month in both all-breed and specialty shows.

 Clwyd Cockers
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11/1/2017 11:36:05 AM reply with quote send message to Clwyd Cockers Object to Post

Ok, I did message staff about this. We do have a player who stacks specialties with less than optimal dogs.

I have not contacted them as I wasn’t sure if that was the cause.
I’ll contavt them and try to not offend them.

Carol
 Rainbow Castle
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11/1/2017 11:51:36 AM reply with quote send message to Rainbow Castle Object to Post

Hi Carol! I play in Cockers as well so I’m in the same boat as you. I posted my thoughts in the other thread. The player did respond and attempt to address some of my concerns. However, she doesn’t seem to care about the ramifications that affect everyone because she is playing within the rules of the game. It seems her goal is not to stack shows to build majors and finish dogs, but instead to push her dogs up the leader boards.
 gaylanstudio3
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11/1/2017 2:01:49 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio3 Object to Post

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This is becoming an issue in a lot of breeds and I don't know what the solution is since there is nothing illegal about it. (I might even be guilty of it myself on occasion but not with any any intent or plan, honest.)

So, I know I tend to boycott expensive entry fee shows but maybe that is one way of fighting this behavior. I'm going to make my future shows higher entry fees and see what happens.

Apart from that, all I can suggest is that you make sure there are SMALL numbers of both sexes in all the other shows. You won't get many points but as I understand the points are based on the average numbers of each show so having only one or two in the other shows it should bring down the average - of course you won't see that until the following month.

And lastly, I really think we need an improved community spirit in the case of certain players. "Stacking" has always been a part of the strategy, but stacking for a particular situation (to finish a title on an older dog for example), not as a regular practice. If we ask for (and get) rule changes, they will also impact legitimate strategical actions.

What we don't need though is "public Shaming" - keep the names out of this!

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Last edited by gaylanstudio3 on 11/1/2017 2:19:47 PM
 ShadowRun Kennel
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11/1/2017 2:14:49 PM reply with quote send message to ShadowRun Kennel Object to Post

well I guess I'll have a hard time finishing her now... lol... www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=15954151

It's just hard to find regular shows with 10+bitches in it...

The reality is that while this isn't against the rules, it certainly makes it difficult for alot of other players and makes certain breeds less attractive to be in.

I've never had the top winning cockers or won a ton but I finish my dogs and I enjoy the players in this breed, I love being in cockers but I also am not a fan of the point schedules being "artificially inflated" becasue of one person's choice to play a certain way.

I sponsor a ton of specialties for most of the breeds I'm in because most of my kennels are over limit on money, so I sponsor specialties... would everyone be happier if I didn't so there were less shows to raise entries for the point schedule??? I can take a break from sponsoring them if you think it would help...

 Clwyd Cockers
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11/1/2017 2:18:49 PM reply with quote send message to Clwyd Cockers Object to Post

Well if this is true, I can protest by putting all my studs on approval and suggest you all do too.
This is the un-sportsmanship like attitude that is very unpopular globally!

Carol-who is tee-d off.
 Willowcreek
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11/1/2017 2:25:56 PM reply with quote send message to Willowcreek Object to Post

Yes Carol you can... (Shadowrun Cockers here), maybe we all should... and put puppies on approval too. I don't know. I always enjoyed playing in breeds that were friendly and had an open flow of studs and puppies, it just makes things more pleasant for me.

It's sad that this is happening to so many breeds I've been in for so many years.... it's just disappointing sad :(

 BarStar Goldens
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11/1/2017 2:37:45 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Goldens Object to Post

Noooooo that is the wrong thing to do....

Keep your studs up publicly.

Shadow - Sponsor shows at $20 an entry. It will get too expensive to enter tons of dogs.

Enter stacked shows with better dogs and win the points.

Shutting players out completely like studs on approval... leads to bitterness in the breed.

Will
 Clwyd Cockers
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11/1/2017 2:38:20 PM reply with quote send message to Clwyd Cockers Object to Post

ACS has been a great place to be and it will be again.
I'm also in Welsh Springers.
There was a difficult time in that breed too because of one player.
They are now gone and things are rosy at this time...LOL
Everything ON APPROVAL!!
 Willowcreek
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11/1/2017 2:45:59 PM reply with quote send message to Willowcreek Object to Post

You make good points Will ... but it's just so hard.

Shelties used to be a notoriously unfriendly breed, like no one wanted to play in them because of the acts of certain players (this was years and years ago), I got a hold of some low SOP shelties (at the time) and started breeding them, putting studs and puppies up to the public, etc. I fought hard for this breed and I eventually won the fight to turn this breed into a friendly place to be for others. It just makes me sad that it might end up an unpopular breed again because of this nonsense... *sigh*
 Kleenex Kennels
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11/1/2017 2:53:10 PM reply with quote send message to Kleenex Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

user wiped their message

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Last edited by Kleenex Kennels on 11/1/2017 3:42:37 PM
 BarStar Goldens
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11/1/2017 2:56:23 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Goldens Object to Post

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quote
posted by Clwyd Cockers
ACS has been a great place to be and it will be again.
I'm also in Welsh Springers.
There was a difficult time in that breed too because of one player.
They are now gone and things are rosy at this time...LOL
Everything ON APPROVAL!!

Oh wait you said Welshies... lol nvm not me

Was that me Carol? :P

Will

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Last edited by BarStar Goldens on 11/1/2017 2:57:35 PM
 Kleenex Kennels
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11/1/2017 2:58:46 PM reply with quote send message to Kleenex Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

user wiped their message

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Last edited by Kleenex Kennels on 11/1/2017 3:42:47 PM
 BarStar Goldens
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11/1/2017 3:19:00 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Goldens Object to Post

Kleenex -

I don't think you are seeing the big picture.

Before you jacked up the point scale, you could have easily entered a dog with a handler and entered a handful of others without to build up the smaller major. You would have accomplished the same results.

Instead, you have artificially ranked your dogs on all time lists and made it more difficult for folks to achieve majors to finish their dogs.

It would have taken very little extra effort to build the smaller majors vs shoving everything in one show a night.

Personally, I wrote you privately to discuss this issue before I publicaly mentioned it and you ignored my message.

Just be careful of the breeds where you have multiple kennels... The way you put three kennels worth of dogs in a show for Kuvasz is superkenneling and not within the rules of the game.

Stay in the game and play your way. Noone will stop you.

Will

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Judges are generally certified to judge one or several breeds, usually in the same group, but a few "all-breed" judges have the training and experience to judge large numbers of breeds.