.com Forum · Dogue de Bordeaux

Isabella: 10%
Fawn: 20%
Mahogany: 30%
Red: 40%

Fawn black mask
EM/EM B/B D/D i/i
EM/EM B/B D/d i/i
EM/EM B/b D/D i/i
EM/EM B/b D/d i/i
EM/E B/B D/D i/i
EM/E B/B D/d i/i
EM/E B/b D/D i/i
EM/E B/b D/d i/i

Red black mask
EM/EM B/B D/D I/i
EM/EM B/B D/d I/i
EM/EM B/b D/D I/i
EM/EM B/b D/d I/i
EM/E B/B D/D I/i
EM/E B/B D/d I/i
EM/E B/b D/D I/i
EM/E B/b D/d I/i

Mahogany black mask
EM/EM B/B D/D I/I
EM/EM B/B D/d I/I
EM/EM B/b D/D I/I
EM/EM B/b D/d I/I
EM/E B/B D/D I/I
EM/E B/B D/d I/I
EM/E B/b D/D I/I
EM/E B/b D/d I/I

Fawn Isabella black mask
EM/EM B/B d/d i/i
EM/EM B/b d/d i/i
EM/E B/B d/d i/i
EM/E B/b d/d i/i

Red Isabella black mask
EM/EM B/B d/d I/i
EM/EM B/b d/d I/i
EM/E B/B d/d I/i
EM/E B/b d/d I/i

Mahogany Isabella black mask
EM/EM B/B d/d I/I
EM/EM B/b d/d I/I
EM/E B/B d/d I/I
EM/E B/b d/d I/I

Fawn no mask, red nose
E/E B/B D/D i/i
E/E B/B D/d i/i
E/E B/b D/D i/i
E/E B/b D/d i/i

Red no mask, red nose
E/E B/B D/D I/i
E/E B/B D/d I/i
E/E B/b D/D I/i
E/E B/b D/d I/i

Mahogany no mask, red nose
E/E B/B D/D I/I
E/E B/B D/d I/I
E/E B/b D/D I/I
E/E B/b D/d I/I

Fawn Isabella no mask, red nose
E/E B/B d/d i/i
E/E B/b d/d i/i
E/E b/b d/d i/i

Red Isabella no mask, red nose
E/E B/B d/d I/i
E/E B/b d/d I/i
E/E b/b d/d I/i

Mahogany Isabella no mask, red nose
E/E B/B d/d I/I
E/E B/b d/d I/I
E/E b/b d/d I/I

Fawn brown mask
EM/EM b/b D/D i/i
EM/EM b/b D/d i/i
EM/E b/b D/D i/i
EM/E b/b D/d i/i

Red brown mask
EM/EM b/b D/D I/i
EM/EM b/b D/d I/i
EM/E b/b D/D I/i
EM/E b/b D/d I/i

Mahogany brown mask
EM/EM b/b D/D I/I
EM/EM b/b D/d I/I
EM/E b/b D/D I/I
EM/E b/b D/d I/I

Fawn Isabella brown mask
EM/EM b/b d/d i/i
EM/E b/b d/d i/i

Red Isabella brown mask
EM/EM b/b d/d I/i
EM/E b/b d/d I/i

Mahogany Isabella brown Mask
EM/EM b/b d/d I/I
EM/E b/b d/d I/I

bump

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whats isabella?

Isabella. Same color as a fawn Doberman pretty much.




~Morgan

I have not been paying much attention to the colours - but Isabella is a colour of its own - you cannot get red isabella or mahogony isabella...its a just an isabella.....a blonde colour....
I am gonna get shot down in flames here but the colours are wrong - not that I am taking any notice when breeding and showing but for those that want to colour breed - the colours are wrong....I did agree to the codes - I dont know what I was thinking at the time...You can leave it as it is - I wont be taking any notice myself BUT anyone who wants to colour breed may have a problem with it.....If Jeff is involved we will go to the end of the list again

i only want to breed for fawn and its variations anyway.
thanks for the replies.

i let jeff know we were interested in correcting the colours and he sed to remind him about it when he is done with the other 49 breeds.
O.o

I'd be happy to help but I don't understand your model I'm afraid - what does "i" stand for?? The way I'd "solve" the issue with the "shades" of Isabella would be to have Isabella act dominant to whatever shading gene you use... In my model I suggested (which I'm reposting here modified in light of the shading issue), I used these genes since they are what I'm familiar with:

Chocolate: bb
"Shades" of Fawn: CC (Mahogany), Cc (Red), cc (Fawn)
Masked: EE (no mask, sable) Em/E or Em/Em(masked)
Isabelle: ddbb (then you must include blue in your color model - dd)


Mahogany Black nosed
B- CC D- EE

Mahogany Black Masked/Nosed
B- CC D- E/Em

Red Black Nosed
B- Cc D- EE

Red Black masked
B- Cc D- E/Em

Fawn Black Nosed
B- cc D- EE

Fawn Black Masked
B- cc D- E/Em

Mahogany Chocolate nose
bb CC D- EE

Mahogany Chocolate Masked/Nosed
bb CC D- E/Em

Red Chocolate Nosed
bb Cc D- EE

Red Chocolate masked
bb Cc D- E/Em

Fawn Chocolate Nosed
bb cc D- EE

Fawn Chocolate Masked
bb cc D- E/Em


ISABELLA - I noted on here what shades they would be IF THEY WERE EXPRESSED, but as was pointed out there wouldn't be much expression of shading as it's just a very light double diluted color. Some breeds in the game (German Shepherds come to mind) went ahead and created names for dogs that carried certain colors - like a "Solid black and red" German shepherd. Phenotypically, this dog would be solid black, but the breeders wanted to know what color "brown" they'd be (Red, Tan, or Cream) so they added "and -" to all colors if that makes sense. Anyway if you DID NOT want to do it that way then your "Isabella Fawn" you be:

bb -- dd --
(Doesn't matter what's on the C-locus or E-locus as the two dilutes would essentially cancel them out phenotypically).

If you wanted to "cheat" and label what your Isabella's would be then the model I offered in the other thread would work great (labeling the shades of red)

Blue group MUST be factored to have Isabella fawn - just have no starters asigned to the color. Same "rules" apply - ALL these dogs would be "blue" it's a question of do you want to know what else is "in" there:

Blue
-- -- dd --

Or:

Mahogany Blue nose
B- CC dd EE

Mahogany Blue Masked/Nosed
B- CC dd E/Em

Red Blue Nosed
B- Cc dd EE

Red Blue masked
B- Cc dd E/Em

Fawn Blue Nosed
B- cc dd EE

Fawn Blue Masked
B- cc dd E/Em


I'm sorry I'm too lazy and tired to actually DO all the combinations, but I hope this helps.

Smiles,
Nic

this was the other model you posted on the banana thread:

Cocheta Kennels
Premium Member
Posts : 465

Premium Member
4/15/2009 1:34:17 PM reply with quote send message to Cocheta Kennels Object to Post
this post has been edited 2 time(s)

quoteposted by The Lupercal
JEFF, i emailed you links to the two threads that i found for DDB discussing the incorrectness with the double colour assignements as regards 'isabella'.
If ANYONE knows how this colour model SHOULD be when it comes to isabella could you post here???????
*bats big doe eyes*

I didn't see your color model discussion thread, but I did a quick google search to see what colors are acceptable and came up with AKC saying fawn with masks and limited white color to be acceptable. I found the DDB society mentions Isabella, but it is my understanding isabella fawn is double dilute - Chocolate (bb) and blue (dd) and I see no mention of DDB being blue. I do see most seem to have no mask and brown noses which implies they are all chocolate (bb) fawns or some other dilute (non diluted colors have black noses generally).

I really like this site to help with the genetics:

www.geocities.com/coatcolorindogs/index.htm

Based on this site, I would do the following:

Fawn/Sable: Ay
Chocolate: bb
Red factors: CC (rich red), Cc (Medium red), cc (Cream)
Masked: E- (no mask, sable) Em/E (masked), ee (clear red - takes out black pigment)
Isabelle: ddbb (then you must include blue in your color model - dd)

Soooooo I'd say to keep it as simple as possible you have the following:

Dark Red Black nosed
B- CC D- EE

Dark Red Black Masked/Nosed
B- CC D- E/Em

Medium Red Black Nosed
B- Cc D- EE

Med Red Black masked
B- Cc D- E/Em

Lightest Red Black Nosed
B- cc D- EE

Lightest Red Black Masked
B- cc D- E/Em

Dark Red Chocolate nose
bb CC D- EE

Dark Red Chocolate Masked/Nosed
bb CC D- E/Em

Medium Red Chocolate Nosed
bb Cc D- EE

Med Red Chocolate masked
bb Cc D- E/Em

Lightest Red Chocolate Nosed
bb cc D- EE

Lightest Red Chocolate Masked
bb cc D- E/Em

(Blue group MUST be factored to have Isabella fawn)
Dark Red Blue nose
B- CC dd EE

Dark Red Blue Masked/Nosed
B- CC dd E/Em

Medium Red Blue Nosed
B- Cc dd EE

Med Red Blue masked
B- Cc dd E/Em

Lightest Red Blue Nosed
B- cc dd EE

Lightest Red Blue Masked
B- cc dd E/Em

Dark Red Isabelle nose
bb CC dd EE

Dark Red Isabelle Masked/Nosed
bb CC dd E/Em

Medium Red Isabelle Nosed
bb Cc dd EE

Med Red Isabelle masked
bb Cc dd E/Em

Lightest Red Isabelle Nosed
bb cc dd EE

Lightest Red Isabelle Masked
bb cc dd E/Em


Just a quick throw together model since I couldn't find any discussed model. wink

Smiles,
Nic

edited for typos

Thankyou for helping…………… I would like to add that DDB come in following form but alas I have no clue how to put it into code....

Red - they are not registered with the Kennel Club as any shade of etc just plain and simple RED.

Isabella – some people do register their lighter fawns as Isabella and is recognized as an Isabella with the KC.

So the shades are of no use and I for one don’t see the need for shades when the KC don’t stipulate this….others may want shades of red in the colour description but as its not needed to register them I don’t see the need to do it here, making it as close to real life as possible.

Isabella is as that – Isabella you cannot get dark red med red etc….Isabella is a colour in its own right….to put dark red Isabella kind of contradicts itself in that an Isabella is a light fawn colour as the above picture shows.

We have 3 shades of mask, they are Black mask, Brown Mask, No mask.

The colours of the DDB as with the KC are

Mahogony to Isabella – Chocolate is not a recognized colour. But we register them as Red or Isabella as this is all that is required.

Black mask can appear on Mahogany to Isabella DDB. But can only be produced when using either a black mask bitch or a black mask dog, they do not appear in a red to red mating.

No mask appears on Isabella where the skin appears red but they are a no mask.

DDB only have 3 colours of nose which follow their mask colour, so black nose for a black mask whether Red or Isabella, Brown noses for a Brown mask, No masks are predominately Isabella so therefore their noses appear flesh coloured or reddish.

These are all that need to appear on the colour description and hopefully will be much easier for the person who can code them – nice and simple and true to life.

Red -No Mask ………………most common colour seen.
Red -Black Mask -Black Nose ……………….3rd colour most seen
Red- Brown Mask- Brown Nose……………….2nd colour most seen
Isabella -No Mask……………………not many seen
Isabella -Black Mask- Black Nose……………….not many seen


Phew…………I really hope this helps to clear up the colours etc……we don’t have blue masks or noses and chocolate does not apply to the DDB.

if we can get it coded in..i'd agree to the latest model proposed by ladykenco

i'm in favour of ladykenco's model if somebody knows how to write it into code

Linda

I agree with Lady Kencos model.

Will from AquaNet (de Drool DDBs)

So which one should I use?

We are still looking for someone to put this model into code.....I shall go ask on the gen forum and see if anyone will.

im not the expert...i only compiled the received infos for you, sorry!
i think the model to use is the tweeked model i quoted from COCHETA taking into account the uncoded style info ladykenco added.
O.o
i hope the gen forum helps.

wonders if dragging DW from SH.com in here would help...LOL

has their been any luck with this?

I'm responding to the call for help on the alpha dog forum.

Edited: You must include isabella brown mask because it is a genetic combination that is possible if you have red brown mask.

Shades of red:
Red - CC, Cc
Isabella - cc

Mask - EE, Ee
no Mask - ee

Black Mask - BB, Bb
Brown Mask - bb

Putting it together:

Red Black Mask
BBCCEE
BBCCEe
BbCCEE
BbCCEe
BBCcEE
BBCcEe
BbCcEE
BbCcEe

Red Brown Mask
bbCCEE
bbCCEe
bbCcEE
bbCcEe

Red no Mask
BBCCee
BbCCee
bbCCee
BBCcee
BbCcee
bbCcee

Isabella Black Mask
BBccEE
BBccEe
BbccEE
BbccEe

Isabella Brown Mask
bbccEE
bbccEe

Isabella no Mask
BBccee
Bbccee
bbccee

grif,