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Author Topic : COI??
 Kalbarri
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6/17/2018 3:48:09 PM reply with quote send message to Kalbarri Object to Post   

Ok. So I have played this game since when it went live (just on different accounts). Back in the day, there were tons more players, things were significantly more competitive, etc. Times have changed, obviously. I am seriously worried about certain breeds in terms of COI. In this kennel I have Canaan Dogs. There are two breeders on this game that are in this breed. I seriously don't know how we are supposed to continue keeping below a certain COI. I get that there are source dogs, but even then, there are just two breeders. Is there anyway we could petition to remove COI issues effecting the quality of dogs?
 Comet Poodles
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6/17/2018 4:15:09 PM reply with quote send message to Comet Poodles Object to Post

Hidden studs perhaps? I'll have a look. I've had this issue and had to work out of the hole. Or introducing source dogs.

I kind of like COI, it discourages overuse of studs, so I would not like to see it removed personally.
 Comet Poodles
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6/17/2018 5:27:20 PM reply with quote send message to Comet Poodles Object to Post

Ok, so I could only find 3 hidden ones in a quick search. I'll look again when I get on my computer. I'm not sure if you've used any of these males.

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=14909173
www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=14543451
www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=15095269

Have you contacted nyan_jai to ask about making sure to put up males you wish to use?
 nyan_jai
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6/18/2018 2:29:37 AM reply with quote send message to nyan_jai Object to Post

I have had some dogs at stud however the OP only has 2 of their males at stud themselves
 Comet Poodles
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6/18/2018 5:27:53 AM reply with quote send message to Comet Poodles Object to Post

Ah, I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I did not check OPs account as typically these sorts of pleas don't have apparent closed kennels.

Well, I suppose this is an opportunity for collaboration to improve.
 nyan_jai
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6/18/2018 5:52:17 AM reply with quote send message to nyan_jai Object to Post

I would be more than happy to collaborate happy :)
 Kalbarri
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6/18/2018 8:46:51 AM reply with quote send message to Kalbarri Object to Post

This was not meant as a stab against nyan. I am just saying in general, is it viable for just two breeders to continue a breed? Even if all of our studs are up between the two studs, at some point COI is going to cause a major issue. It is worrisome. That was the point of this post.
 Diasonia
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6/18/2018 8:49:19 AM reply with quote send message to Diasonia Object to Post

I think it would be necessary to bring in the new blood either by finding old/hidden studs or be getting source dogs.
I am doing both in couple of the breeds I am in and I have to say it's kinda fun, like a treasure hunt hahahaha

Or you can also try getting more people involved, but that would be harder.
 
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6/18/2018 9:36:11 AM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

quote
posted by Kalbarri
This was not meant as a stab against nyan. I am just saying in general, is it viable for just two breeders to continue a breed? Even if all of our studs are up between the two studs, at some point COI is going to cause a major issue. It is worrisome. That was the point of this post.
Yes, it is feasible. When I started in this breed it was just me and Pinkz until life caught up with her. I had to recruit people and actually nyan had some Toy Poodles at the time to help reintroduce some lost colors. I had to look for lost studs to repopulate.

It's not impossible. It just requires due diligence.
 nyan_jai
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6/18/2018 10:51:05 AM reply with quote send message to nyan_jai Object to Post

I think if we keep an eye on COI when breeding it should be fine, I try and keep a variety. I also have a longhair project in another kennel that I am trying to keep the COI low on to increase diversity happy :)
 Lumen
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6/18/2018 3:43:33 PM reply with quote send message to Lumen Object to Post

Just by doing a quick glance at both kennels, it seems to me that y'all have more than enough dogs to keep COI below 15%, as well as the hidden studs as a bonus. I am also in a small breed and almost exclusively use my own studs. There is one/two other kennels and it has not been too much of a problem. I don't think anything in the game needs to change, it is a game of strategy. Good luck
 Lumen
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6/18/2018 3:49:47 PM reply with quote send message to Lumen Object to Post

And to add, you're more likely to run into COI problems with the overuse of a popular/prolific stud or dam that ends up being behind too many of your dogs. Breeding two dogs with 15% COI to each other from different "families" or "lines" can/will result in a 0.00% COI. So it's just about strategy. If you are not a real life breeder doing a bit of research on the topic may be beneficial for you for gameplay in regards to COI.
 gaylanstudio
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6/19/2018 2:02:54 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

With a little planning it is not that difficult to stay ahead of COI issues. You might have to keep an individual or two that are perhaps a bit lower in SOP than you would like but sometimes those lower SOPs with good breeding behind them will surprise you. They sometimes even do better at shows than you'd expect.

So, yes, two active, cooperative breeders can maintain a breed. The emphasis, in my opinion and experience, is on cooperation!
 BarStar
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6/19/2018 3:33:53 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

It is possible for a single kennel to keep COI below 15%.

You just have to hold onto more dogs and be patient with your breeding plans.

Will
 Steph
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6/19/2018 3:38:27 PM reply with quote send message to Steph Object to Post

In our Curly kennel... www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=16364825

Below 4% COI in Gen 125... and looks like I haven't bred her lineage to an outside kennel since Gen 116.

For this breed, I am usually the only breeder. Every once in awhile, someone will join for bit then leave.

I sell them stock. They breed it and if they produce something nice, I will cross back out to their dogs.

I guess I have been linebreeding the same line for years. haha.

Will
 Bennett Working Dogs
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6/20/2018 2:14:04 AM reply with quote send message to Bennett Working Dogs Object to Post

That's what I and a few others, are doing in Anatolians...the gene pool was so small with only one active player that when a friend started, she enlisted a bunch of us to buy a couple of source dogs and do a breeding or two. We're not there yet, but we will be one day.
 Rensvik
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6/20/2018 5:14:35 AM reply with quote send message to Rensvik Object to Post

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

Can be done. I am running a full capacity Norwegian Buhund kennel. There are a couple of breeders with between 1-3 dogs, and a couple of other medium breeders who appear only occasionally. So I very rarely have the opportunity to breed outside my kennel. I am running nine different male lines, and I work at keeping all the different lines alive.

It is not uncommon for me to FH a nice male as soon as he has produced one or two superior male pups. I rarely keep a male for a great length of time, unless I am trying to get a new male from that line to replace him. It hurts to FH a nice boy, but doing so, has kept the COI down, and good variety of bloodlines going.

Occasionally I have gone backwards in SOP to keep a line going --- but it usually pays off in the long run.



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Last edited by Rensvik on 6/20/2018 5:19:18 AM
 Marquetry
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6/24/2018 11:53:22 PM reply with quote send message to Marquetry Object to Post

Things are getting better now, but for several years there were only two breeders in Belgian sheepdogs. We shared studs now and then but not what I'd call regularly. And never had any major trouble with COI. As has already been mentioned here, don't overuse any one stud, and be sure and mix up your studs, and you should be fine. I generally won't use a stud for more than 2-3 litters and have never had a problem with COI.
 tammo
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6/25/2018 5:38:52 PM reply with quote send message to tammo Object to Post

How do you find “hidden studs”? I don’t know anything about hidden studs!
 gaylanstudio
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6/26/2018 12:16:51 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

* Check your breed forum then check the kennels that have posted anything.
* Check the list of Merit dogs and All Time leaders.
* Check back through the pedigree of your own (or someone else's) dogs. Then check the kennels that owned and/or bred these to see if they have any still hanging about.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 6/26/2018 12:18:28 PM

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