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 XiZang
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5/25/2018 10:48:23 AM reply with quote send message to XiZang Object to Post

this post has been edited 4 time(s)

"How about we introduce a "genetic flaw" that requires everyone at 100 to breed to a source or near-source dog to eliminate the flaw."[/B]

I kind of like this idea. I have Danes and Goldens who are 100 SOP and it's kind of pointless to breed them. There aren't enough colors for color breeding, and who needs more of the same (I know, pretty blase)

But if breeding 100 to 100 would produce sterile pups or stillborns or something, there would be no point in doing it. However, in that kennel, I have no starters left. It would certainly start a flurry of breeding starters.

Dat gum it, how do you turn of bolding???

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 ESAN
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5/25/2018 1:06:21 PM reply with quote send message to ESAN Object to Post

Or everyone would breed as close to 100 as possible. If you want a winner you breed yourself a 99.9, so... don't know if that's a solution
 Lunatic
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5/25/2018 3:36:34 PM reply with quote send message to Lunatic Object to Post

I'm with the suggestion that any breeds that hit 100 SOP should be retired or reset to zero. Retiring them would hopefully force people to play in some of the less popular breeds, as more and more breeds hit 100. Just doing a reset on them would still have benefits, like seeing different breeds win Best in Show.

Or I'd be okay with a reset as in the past where things were adjusted behind the scenes. It seems like the most short term solution, though.

Or I'd even accept a hard reset. This is my least favorite option but I'd still deal with it and continue to play.

People are going to be angry no matter what, but I do think something has to be done.
 Clwyd Cockers
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5/25/2018 5:04:03 PM reply with quote send message to Clwyd Cockers Object to Post

Jeff should create a poll to try to get a global feeling about what to do, in my opinion.

I survived the last reset. The dedicated ones did anyways.
I will be here anyways so I’m for a reset.

Just don’t reset my source Welsh Springers in Caulfeilds.
I started at Gen 1 and now I’m at Gen 114 after 12 years.

I laughed at that person who didn’t want a change as they had been working on their breed for a year! ...LOL
 Alibi
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5/25/2018 5:06:14 PM reply with quote send message to Alibi Object to Post

I'm 100% against removing any breed from the game.

I'm pretty cool with any kind of reset otherwise, I've survived them all and it's not that big of a to do once you get used to looking at your colourful dogs again... lol

The breeds that are popular right now haven't always been the most popular in the game. But popular breeds to tend to reflect reality, goldens, sibes, GSD's... all popular in real life, most people come on here and want to start with the breed they own, wanted to own, etc. Not many people have heard of a Lagotto or a Pumi, so they may never be as popular as the other breeds.

Over my almost 15 years of playing I've had a ton of different breeds, I've done a breed a champion in every breed project, I colour breed, I source breed... etc. there are a ton of things to do on this game even if we don't reset anything.

I suppose if your goal is to reach 100 then I can see why a reset would seem like a huge disaster. It's never been my goal so I guess that's why I've never been to bothered by them. The great SD shutdown of what was it 2006??? I don't know who would remember, where we lost the whole game for several days was way worse... hahaha
 Alibi
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5/25/2018 5:07:19 PM reply with quote send message to Alibi Object to Post

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Wouldn't you still keep your generation of the WSS? wouldn't it just the SOP that was different? That's what i remember from the original reset...

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Last edited by Alibi on 5/25/2018 5:13:52 PM
 Mamba
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5/25/2018 5:16:34 PM reply with quote send message to Mamba Object to Post

Alibi is right. The resets in the past didn't really "erase" any breeders hard work. They just revealed a hidden decimal. All the 100 SOP dogs aren't a perfect 100.00, they do have some hidden decimals that are rounded to 100. And the resets reveals them and sets the SOP back as an effect. I can't see why do some think they'll somehow loose their hard work???
 gaylanstudio
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5/25/2018 7:55:56 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

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While the traditional reset is not that bad, it maintains the status quo. I can live with that but I sort of think that the overall game would benefit more from a selective reset of some sort.

I know it was my idea but I do kind of like the idea of forcing those 100's to introduce source blood - I think it would be kind of fun but it would have to be everyone in the breed.

Implementation considerations:
It wouldn't even have to affect every 100.0 either as some of those are going to be 99.95 to 99.99. Anything 100.01 or more bred to another 100.01 would produce pups flagged as "sterile". You could still breed a 100.01 to a 99.99 and get breedable 100 pups but if you wanted to continue breeding 100's it would become a hit and miss thing as you wouldn't know if that 100.0 was a 100.01 or a 99.99 would you. You are sure to end up with some sterile pups. What fun! Lol!

(I think I might have a few free starters to make for folks.)

For Admin, if this were somehow added to the code, it would automatically "reset" any breed as soon as they reached that threshold - no more resets, ever! Now I know this is going to involve some coding effort - willing to give it a try?


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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 5/25/2018 8:38:34 PM
 Hawkeye Kennel
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5/26/2018 4:24:16 AM reply with quote send message to Hawkeye Kennel Object to Post

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quote
posted by Clwyd Cockers

I laughed at that person who didn’t want a change as they had been working on their breed for a year! ...LOL

I mean it's no 12 years but it's still a year of hard work for me that I am proud of :P and I have every right to not want that progress to be lost xD

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Last edited by Hawkeye Kennel on 5/26/2018 5:45:38 AM
 BarStar
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5/26/2018 11:53:04 AM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

I firmly hate the idea of setting any breed back to zero.

Removing any breed from SD wouldn't fix anything.

I still think an across the board reset to get all breeds in a similar average SOP range would be best.

Get all the SOPs forced back but equaling the playing field across all breeds.

It could possibly encourage participation in less popular breeds and give other breeds a shot at going for the bigger wins.

And, while we are at it... Redo the source generating system to create source dogs that are 60% of current SOP average of a breed so folks aren't having to spend a hundred years to catch up.

Will
 Arial Eve
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5/26/2018 2:07:57 PM reply with quote send message to Arial Eve Object to Post

quote
posted by BarStar
I firmly hate the idea of setting any breed back to zero.

Removing any breed from SD wouldn't fix anything.

I still think an across the board reset to get all breeds in a similar average SOP range would be best.

Get all the SOPs forced back but equaling the playing field across all breeds.

It could possibly encourage participation in less popular breeds and give other breeds a shot at going for the bigger wins.

And, while we are at it... Redo the source generating system to create source dogs that are 60% of current SOP average of a breed so folks aren't having to spend a hundred years to catch up.

Will

Agree!
 gaylanstudio
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5/27/2018 11:45:00 AM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

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While I do strongly agree that the quality of starter dogs could be bumped up a notch or two, I'm not totally on board with moving everyone back just because a couple of breeds are at 100 SOP.

If you are one of these '100' breeds, it makes picking your keepers a challenge, but as I understand things, there is still a difference. We can't see that difference but judges can.

I think it's more appropriate to "fix" the "problem" breeds than to fix everyone. The status quo remains and the same breeds will be evoking the same questions again in the future. I also think it should be up to the breeds involved to decide the solution - getting moved back by one means or another, or living with the situation. It is their success that is creating their problem. Leave the rest of us out of it.

With a selective "reset" eventually all breeds will go through it - even Welsh Springers CLWYD, eventually (lol). The more I think about it, the stronger I feel that it should be selective.

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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 5/27/2018 11:57:28 AM
 Mamba
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5/27/2018 2:00:39 PM reply with quote send message to Mamba Object to Post

Gaylanstudio, if all breeds will eventually go through this all of us can come with ideas
 BarStar
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5/27/2018 4:06:04 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

A site wide reset that evens the SOP level to make all breeds within the same SOP status will have many benefits. Plus, Jeff can do it all at once.

I see individual resets being a distraction taking up too much of Jeff's time when they pop up every few months. More chances for bugs/glitches. And they do not address the overall issue.

I say one and done. Equalize the playing field to encourage folks to try new breeds. More players may come back if they heard the news.

Will
 BarStar
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5/27/2018 4:09:21 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

quote
posted by gaylanstudio


With a selective "reset" eventually all breeds will go through it - even Welsh Springers CLWYD, eventually (lol). The more I think about it, the stronger I feel that it should be selective.

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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 5/27/2018 11:57:28 AM

An across the board reset that balances out the SOP equality would help bring Carol's Springers closer forward to be more competitive with all breeds.

Will

 DoogieG6521
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5/27/2018 4:45:31 PM reply with quote send message to DoogieG6521 Object to Post

I am only for an across the board reset, if it brings the average SOP of every breed to the same level.
I was around since the beginning of SD, and previous resets did not work that way. The SOP were basically just reduced by a percentage. This made no difference in high SOP breeds. The dogs all still ranked the same, just the SOP number was halved. One of the other adjustments just added decimal places to the SOP, made no change in which dogs were high or low.
 gaylanstudio
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5/27/2018 10:58:01 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

Mamba, everyone does have the right to put forward their ideas and to put foreword arguments in favour or opposed to any solution.

At the moment it is apparently only two or three breeds that are facing this problem. If everyone gets moved back proportionally, the same breeds will still be ahead of everyone and they will most likely, in time, again be calling for a reset.

If everyone gets moved back to the same level (I'm assuming that's what is intended with the average SOP) I don't see that it makes much difference what that point is, everyone is moved back to the same starting position - it's restarting the game. I think this is preferable to the proportional move back for everyone but still is it fair to those who have worked hard and got to the 98,99 level?

So, what would we pick as that average? The highest of course makes no sense. The lowest - everyone gets moved back except the lowest breeds - they get to stay where they are. The current average of all breeds - something sort of in the current middle? Wouldn't this mean that the lowest breeds get moved up - an unearned boost? Is that a problem to anyone? Maybe, maybe not . . .

My choice would still be to fix the breeds that are creating the problem. I've suggested we "encourage" those breeds to fix themselves. I've also suggested that those problem breeds decide for themselves if or how they want to fix it.

It doesn't bother me one bit if Danes or Goldens or whatever can't cull their litters properly but, depending on the solution, the fix might well impact me. I have breeds in the 94s, and I also have some in the 98's.
 Clay Creek Falls
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5/27/2018 11:57:49 PM reply with quote send message to Clay Creek Falls Object to Post

quote
posted by BarStar
A site wide reset that evens the SOP level to make all breeds within the same SOP status will have many benefits. Plus, Jeff can do it all at once.

I see individual resets being a distraction taking up too much of Jeff's time when they pop up every few months. More chances for bugs/glitches. And they do not address the overall issue.

I say one and done. Equalize the playing field to encourage folks to try new breeds. More players may come back if they heard the news.

Will

I completely agree with you on this Will! I know how long and painful coding can be, say if you have to do 20 breeds all separately for one month... very time consuming!

Heck what if we had an SD apocalypse where all dogs are wiped out. That way everyone had to start again lol

And then give users the option to list their most proud dogs in a 'hall of fame' or something, on their kennel.. ? or some kinda kennel badge like our 10 yrs anniversary ?

Personally I think I would love the challenge haha. Yeah it will kinda suck to lose about 10 years worth of breeding, but at the end of the day SD is a game, games are meant to be challenging, fun and interesting

Lindsey
 Star Shiine
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5/28/2018 10:41:12 AM reply with quote send message to Star Shiine Object to Post

I agree with a reset for each breeds that hit 100%. It may slow down the race to get higher sop all the time. I don't think the lower sop breeds should suffer by being put back just because the most competitive and popular have got to the top. It would also give less popular(for BIS) breeds a crack at BIS and groups.
I don't mind a total reset if that's what happens as long as the dogs' traits are unaffected..ie..a dog with a vh coat would still have a vh coat after the reset, compared to others.
 BarStar
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5/28/2018 11:52:57 AM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

quote
posted by gaylanstudio


My choice would still be to fix the breeds that are creating the problem. I've suggested we "encourage" those breeds to fix themselves. I've also suggested that those problem breeds decide for themselves if or how they want to fix it.


I disagree with your perspective.

The fact that breeders have success in getting those breeds to 100 sop is NOT a problem.

It is part of the game to work towards perfect dogs. Our work should be celebrated and not described as the problem.

The game systematics need to be adjusted to find a way to solve the dilemma long term.

Will

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Did you know?
The sit for exam is a modified version of the Stand for Exam. It is generally used in novice level classes and requires the handler to order the dog to sit and then to move away from the dog the length of the leash. The judge will then approach the dog and pet the dog's head.