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Showdog.com Forum · Alpha Dog Forum

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 Flush
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12/5/2016 1:26:03 PM reply with quote send message to Flush Object to Post

I only notice problems like dogs not being fed.

Re source/ starter dogs, again I am campaigning for endangered breeds that have few active dogs in the game.
My other breed WSS,( No.141 on the list) have only 72 dogs in the game. My free source dogs were all dreadful and I will have to pay $207 each to buy more.
However Manchester Terriers with 58 dogs in the game only pay $20.

So I would like to see those costs made fairer for all breeds and priced to encourage new source/ starter lines. Maybe then more players would get more kennels if they could start new lines more cheaply?

 gaylanstudio
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12/5/2016 8:16:13 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

There is no doubt that the root problem in all of these games is lack of user volume. Some of that is due to developmental inertia but I do agree with what someone said about focusing on things we can do as players - and should be doing anyway in the interests of fair play and good sportsmanship.

Be welcoming and supportive of new players whether they are true new players or just someone looking for a new breed for a little change.

Don't hoard! Make your studs available! Make some of your older girls available to new kennels.

Don't overload the classes forcing the point schedule for majors ridiculously high. Try not to grab all the top handles as well.

If you have puppies to sell, post them. Put them on decent food so that new player can get a good start. With the sessions we are getting these days most of us can afford to drop a few on those sale pups.

The one big issue I think at this time is getting the judge issue fixed. We were supposed to be getting 35% owner-handler judges - instead we are down to one single judge (has there been any change on that). This problem is inseperable from the handler availability issue. There are a few other issues but they are relatively minor compared to this one, in my opinion.

On the bright side, as these games go this one is doing fairly well. I've been tracking the "30 day logons for ShowDog, Horse, Rabbit, and Cattle. As of yesterday, SD had 1383 in the previous 30 days, SCattle 945, SHorse 227, and SRabbit 165.

I know there are others like me who enjoy these games. Low tech they may be, but I don't need all those fancy graphics with generally cartoonish galloping horses. It is a simulation simulating the processes of breeding and showing show animals. The entertainment is in the process, not the eyecatching visuals. Many of you have grown up with SD, SH, etc. I personally don't know what I would do with my evenings were it not for them.

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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 12/5/2016 8:27:00 PM
 gaylanstudio
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12/5/2016 8:22:39 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

As for the rare breeds, SD wise, well, I think we need to be realistic and let some of these go. They can be revived, it's not like a real breed with roots that are 100 or more years old that once lost can never be resurrected.

I don't think we have the players to keep them all current and competitive and perhaps by trying to we are inadvertantly causing more breeds to fail. Perhaps we are spreading ourselves too thin.
 Dalkeith
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12/5/2016 8:31:55 PM reply with quote send message to Dalkeith Object to Post

quote
posted by gaylanstudio
As for the rare breeds, SD wise, well, I think we need to be realistic and let some of these go. They can be revived, it's not like a real breed with roots that are 100 or more years old that once lost can never be resurrected.

I don't think we have the players to keep them all current and competitive and perhaps by trying to we are inadvertantly causing more breeds to fail. Perhaps we are spreading ourselves too thin.

I think this is a fair point.

I'm a sucker for helping out rare/dying breeds and I quite regularly check which breeds are at the bottom of the popularity list and which ones need new players etc and its constantly changing. It seems like each fortnight there's a new breed on the critical list. I think the phrase 'spreading ourselves too thin' is exactly what's happening with the rare breeds. When we help to revive one breed, another two become critical.
 Striker
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12/5/2016 10:07:12 PM reply with quote send message to Striker Object to Post

I've been playing this game since the year it started, I like it because it's realistic. I don't care for the cartoonish FB games where I have to invite friends and nonsense like that.

Yes it would be great if there were updates and new features, but that's not likely going to happen all the time. I agree if the judges were fixed that would be the most important to functionality.

I've had to let kennels go recently because I just don't have time. I have RL dogs, a husband, a toddler and a job... Not enough time for as many as I used to have. I've kept my favourites. Once upon a time I had upwards of 40 kennels.
Now I have I think 10.
 Silk N Denim Terriers
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12/5/2016 10:29:11 PM reply with quote send message to Silk N Denim Terriers Object to Post

I have to agree on the simplicity of the game format. I know someone had suggested the game needed a face lift, but I for one like the cleanliness and maturity of the current format.

I do not like the childish graphics of a lot of the games. And it takes very little data to play the game as it is. Not everyone has unlimited data even in this day and age lol.
 Super Uber Kennels
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12/5/2016 10:41:05 PM reply with quote send message to Super Uber Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by gaylanstudio
As for the rare breeds, SD wise, well, I think we need to be realistic and let some of these go. They can be revived, it's not like a real breed with roots that are 100 or more years old that once lost can never be resurrected.

I don't think we have the players to keep them all current and competitive and perhaps by trying to we are inadvertantly causing more breeds to fail. Perhaps we are spreading ourselves too thin.

I agree with this. I think if the game had considerably fewer breeds to choose from, then there'd probably be more players in each of the breeds that were left to choose from. I'm sure some people would quit as a result of such a decision, but it's not like every breed is represented at every show in real life either...
 Temora
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12/6/2016 6:01:10 AM reply with quote send message to Temora Object to Post

Hi people

This is not meant to be a what is wrong with the game thread ... it's a what can we as players do to encourage newbies. And yes not all of them will stay, but can we make it more likely within our play?

I like the congrats messages - I used to send them at World Cup to winners in my breeds - have gotten slack so will start again.

Chat to other players when possible. I'm working on traits in a kennel - another player has just beaten me to that 10 head - so my 10.1 head dog is being entered against her dog while we both work on cementing the trait.

Yes, make your studs available.

Yes give your sale puppies reasonable food. Even session them.

Yes, offer goodish dogs to newbies as well as support.

Sometimes the newbies are experienced players heading into a new breed - so talk to them. I've just sold a lovely girl to an experienced player to give a good start.

Yes - don't jump into a breed and tread all over it with handlers if the breed doesn't use them, or swamp the show with your dogs. Be nice.

Yes - gulp - make entries in your breed forum. Sorry people - I don't do chat.

What have I left out of the shortlist?
 Halcyon Dreams
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12/6/2016 11:55:31 AM reply with quote send message to Halcyon Dreams Object to Post

See I know that the errors and the things that need fixing may be something we all manage to not notice, but if we are talking about keeping new members, well then it may be an issue.

A few months ago I encouraged a friend to start in the game, she got a basic account and for a while managed one of mine and she one day asked me about the majors that are being awarded wrongly. Yes, I said it is not running correctly at the moment. Then she looked at the Gold Championship points list for that month and said that it had dogs on it that were like 1509 days old and hadn't been shown in years, yes I said that's not running correctly at the moment. Then another time I was asked who other than dear old Randal Harris favoured owner handlers, can you see where I'm going here. She decided that the game had too many issues to spend her money on. With the current exchange rates this game doesn't come that cheap in the U.K. anymore.

Any newbies that contact me get helped as much as I can. But none ever do, but then I guess I'm not in popular breeds?
 gaylanstudio
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12/6/2016 9:00:35 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Yes Halcyon, I agree, it's somehow embarrassing that there are so many things we have to explain to newbees that "well, that's not quite working properly at the moment", followed by "Well, we don't really know when it will be fixed". I don't have any answers for this as it is totally out of our hands. I hope that things will change. In the meantime I expect I and apparently some others are still willing to carry on with the game because we have come to enjoy it so much. warts and all.

There's a double edged sword. The game needs to make money in order for Admin to be able to justify the time spent to do upgrades. Without upgrades (for SD it's more a matter of fixing stuff) capturing the interest of new folks and holding the long time players is a struggle.

As players, we can do little except make it a welcoming environment in all the ways we can. We can ask friends to join and hope they get bit by the bug.

The other thing we can do is try to consolidate our efforts into a smaller group of breeds. It can get tiresome pretty fast if there's only one or two people in a breed - no friendly competion. I don't think we should cancel any breed - that would be unfair to those who actually want to work in it but perhaps if you are the only one in a breed and it's getting hard to stay engaged, you should let it go and scout around for another.



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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 12/6/2016 9:06:42 PM
 Star Shiine
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12/7/2016 4:08:18 AM reply with quote send message to Star Shiine Object to Post

How about using the Facebook page. I have a look to see if there was one, and there is, but it's been inactive for years. Maybe share the page about, it might attract new players and some might stay. Others have said it and it's true, it takes a certain kind of obsessive to stay with it. We have, so others will too? If showdog page was shared around your doggy groups it might generate players.

Also, how about a mentors thread, maybe on beginners questions, where experienced players put themselves on a list as available to help new players for free and bump it regularly. Or maybe admin could pin it.
But I think the way forward is not to complain, but think of things us users can do, without hassling admin too much?

I think to welcome newcomers to your breeds, sell them good stock and have all studs available at the breed average cost, and just being pleasant could make the difference between newbies staying or leaving or upgrading or not.
 rhondacline
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12/7/2016 7:48:46 AM reply with quote send message to rhondacline Object to Post


At first glance, I really liked the idea of posting on the Facebook page - but it's not really set up for 'guests' to post. So I don't know how helpful us posting there would be....

My thought originally was - the appeal for most of us is the realism of the game, the genetics, the show engine...
I think that's why the SD Chronicle is appealing - it's another level of 'realism.'

Had we been able to post a daily - "Best In Show Winners" - or having breed clubs post their National Specialty Winners - I think a dog show person stumbling across those type of posts, might be intrigued enough to take a look.

I did go ahead and create a Facebook page for the SD Chronicle - and will try to post some things there ...
https://www.facebook.com/SD-Chronicle-212840969166460

BUT, I'm also wondering if we might benefit from a Facebook group ....

1. Those are set up to allow large groups of people to converse/post very easily

2. The name could be phrased so it would come up for anyone searching for Dog Shows or Show Dogs...

3. The FB groups are pretty popular with the showdog crowd

just thinking out loud...
 DoggyPanache
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12/7/2016 11:21:35 AM reply with quote send message to DoggyPanache Object to Post

I've posted a few times on the SD Facebook page but there is never any response because apparently no one ever goes there.
 Star Shiine
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12/7/2016 2:01:06 PM reply with quote send message to Star Shiine Object to Post

I wonder what proportion of RL exhibitors are subscribers here? My thoughts re Facebook was for RL exhibitors or just doggy mad people who know lots of other like minds to share this site with them,along with a message about the fun to be had.
, I don't think it would be popular to try and post on other actual sites, but to share it around doggy people that you know and also offer to mentor them?
 gaylanstudio
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12/7/2016 8:25:38 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

I had a look at the Chronical FB page. I think whats need is a bit of an explanation of what ShowDog.Com is.

The problem I see is that the Chronical looks too real (take that as a compliment by the way). Folks may feel they've been mislead and some may get upset.

Is the Chronical accessable from there to these casual "stumbled-upon-it" potential new members?
 gaylanstudio
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12/7/2016 8:28:31 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

Real life exhibitors? I know there have been active RL exhibitors off and on and that there are quite a few that have been in the past - myself for one. (Krisk German Shepherds - sorry if I spelled that wrong.)

I think we need a poll - Are you currently showing? Have you shown in the past (pick a number) years? Have you ever bred a litter? When was your last litter born? And so on.

Actually what we need is a survey so we can ask and get answers to more than one question.


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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 12/7/2016 8:36:13 PM
 Star Shiine
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12/8/2016 1:38:03 AM reply with quote send message to Star Shiine Object to Post

I had to stop showing and breeding in RL due to events beyond my control and finding this site is so great as I can use RL skills learnt and it seems anyone can get to the top here with enough SD. experience and time. This game is just great for those who'd love to do it for real, but can't.
I think a poll/survey is a good idea.
 gaylanstudio3
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12/8/2016 11:04:56 AM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio3 Object to Post

Hmm, well, I was going to add a few shows but it seems the dates are all taken! My fellow players have been busy (lol).

I guess I will have to do some entering. First I have to trim back a few kennels that are overpupulated and get cracking with some nameing too.
 Tarot
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12/8/2016 12:57:22 PM reply with quote send message to Tarot Object to Post

Star Shiine, I also showed in RL for many years and still, after 20+ years, I miss it terribly.

This game has filled a huge void for me. The showing, the breeding, the naming, all of it is a lifesaver for me. I don't know what I'd do if it ever shut down. Sure, I get frustrated sometimes over things like the judges, but I'm just very grateful to have found it.

It takes a special kind of person to get so attached to 'dogs' that don't even really have pictures, etc. For people who aren't like that, or who have never been involved in showing/breeding in RL, it won't draw them in.

But for those of us who can imagine our dog floating around the ring at the end of our leash, or the excitement of that newborn litter, it is wonderful.
 
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12/8/2016 8:45:09 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I've actually been around the game for quite awhile (one of my kennels was started in 2005; this is one of my newer ones). I left twice, once due to moving out and away from home for the first time, and the second because of RL commitments. I came back this time on a whim...curiosity...call it what you will. But what do you know, got bit by the bug again, and already finished a UD on one of my Dalmatians. Waiting to breed that girl until she (hopefully) finishes. Got the stud picked out and everything. Back on topic...

New players, new(er) generation. This type of simulation requires dedication, focus...determination. Not something many people these days seem to have in great supply (no insult meant to anyone, merely an observation). The game isn't flashy (no complaint, again, an observation). Our younger generation grew up on flashy. Holding their attention is like a moth to flame...shiny flame burns out, attention gone. There is no real action in the game. I can already hear the old-timers like me screaming wordlessly "SHOWS!!!" I know. I feel you. I'm excited to see show results daily, after two of my girls took majors last week. I stay awake to ungodly hours of the night in the vain hope shows will run right after midnight, so I can see the results before I sleep. I'm helplessly, hopelessly stuck. It would seem I'm one of the stalwarts that this game speaks to, and that keeps.

Quieter shows, I don't really mind. In Rottweilers and Dalmatians, it gives me enough competition to finish and to focus on studying my judges and picking my handlers. But in Black and Tan Coonhounds? I grabbed the boy I have in an attempt to help bring back a nearly dead breed. But now...I'm wondering why I tried. Only one other dog shows against him, usually. Not enough to finish, sometimes mine gets points. I've looked for other breeders, but no dogs available. I haven't messaged about buying more, but I fear I'll have to abandon the breed. It's a struggle, and I just want to help. What about the new players that might run into the same situation, though? Those that don't know what I do, from years of experience and slow slogging to that long awaited Champion title? It's enough to send even our most stalwart players screaming in the opposite direction. And it's sad. But it's the reality I think we all seek, for those of us that play and stay.

Bugs. I find them irritating, but mostly unimportant to daily play. I know how to avoid them, or get around them. If neither apply, I just ignore them. But to new players, who are used to massive MMOs that see patches weekly, if not daily? Where bug fixes are the norm, not the exception? Those small bugs or long awaited updates or promised fixes that linger and linger, will set them off and they will rage quit faster than you can blink. Bugs are a reality of all gameplay. I know. But the generation that follows us finds them unacceptable, because they are used to having outlets to complain to that get them fixed. But in other games, there is an advantage that ShowDog doesn't have: massive numbers. Both in player base and in actual developers and troubleshooting staff. When the players speak in games like those, the developers listen, or they lose the player base. Newer generation players are used to having a lot of say, a lot of power, in how they play. A game like this, with a tiny development team to manage it, and a small, dedicated player base that is used to the bugs and ignoring them, rather than complaining about fixes? I can assure you, most fresh players to the game will cut loose and be gone, rather than sit and wait. Patience is not something that seems to be known or remembered anymore. But even the most patient people have their limits. I've seen amazing players leave this game for a variety of reasons, but unfixed bugs has been the straw that broke the camel's back in a lot of cases. I understand that money is necessary for the game to continue, but it would be nice to see the players' loyalty rewarded, at least in this aspect.

My apologies for the massive post...I started typing, and just couldn't really stop. A lot of years of thinking and wondering came out in this one, I guess.

Kani

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Did you know?
The sit for exam is a modified version of the Stand for Exam. It is generally used in novice level classes and requires the handler to order the dog to sit and then to move away from the dog the length of the leash. The judge will then approach the dog and pet the dog's head.