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 Aussiewolfsister
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9/29/2014 12:15:31 AM reply with quote send message to Aussiewolfsister Object to Post

My luck is not improving any. The highest puppy in my House of Cards litter is 94.00 SOP, even lower than mum who is 94.15 SOP. I shall just have to keep breeding and hope that luck changes soon.
 Analeyn
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9/29/2014 12:33:51 AM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

At least she is a very pretty 94.00, those even blues are nice happy :)

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 Aussiewolfsister
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9/29/2014 12:56:14 AM reply with quote send message to Aussiewolfsister Object to Post

I have to agree, she is one of the better balanced pups I have seen, and has a nice forequarter as well, will keep her for her breeding potential.

Might try House of Cards with my other 94.15 girl when she is ready to breed.
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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9/29/2014 12:57:12 AM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

Aussie, it seems like you have a SS problem. Is that common for you? I havent been back long, but I dont remember it being much of an issue before. Is it a function of the way the new stats work, or is it a problem unique to your genetic lines?
 Dragunov
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9/29/2014 1:55:35 AM reply with quote send message to Dragunov Object to Post

The game goes through slumps of bad SS. I have probably forever homed 20 full litters in the past month in all of my kennels, keeping 1 in maybe 15 dogs.

I try to keep back the least amount of low SS dogs because in the past I've seen it pop up at the most inopportune times. I don't keep back dogs that "would be" a good sop unless they have some trait that my other dogs don't have. If not that, then linebred on exceptional dogs for best homogeneity. I would have said in the past that it doesn't exist on the game but now I believe it does. When I select dogs who were large "jumps" from their parents and linebreed on them, they often produce even more jumps in sop.

In saying so, sop is simply a mathematical way to see the traits. Maybe you will have more luck looking at traits primarily and then sop rather than sop first and then traits.
 Dragunov
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9/29/2014 2:02:28 AM reply with quote send message to Dragunov Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Seek patterns.

See House of Cards' sire: www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?name=Ch%20Bearach%20V%20Zwolfjager

Bearach was only a 93.85 but almost all of his traits were a medium blue except size and feet. He was a good producer just like House. Almost 50% of his offspring were 94+. House's maternal grandsire, Devils Kiss, is also a well-producing male and I believe he produced one of the first dogs who broke the 94 barrier by a longshot.

If you breed randomly, your results will be random. Try to breed to dogs whose ancestors who have bred up from themselves.

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Last edited by Dragunov on 9/29/2014 2:03:00 AM
 Aussiewolfsister
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9/29/2014 2:58:50 AM reply with quote send message to Aussiewolfsister Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I had gone to some outcrosses as some of my lines had started to get a bit too close.

I notice that some other breeders have also had bad runs with SS. I have only recently kept any lower SS, before I had always FH any pups under 20SS.

Raining Roses, who would have been 94.40 with 20 SS, had PPK Irish Yoga on both sides of the pedigree and both parents had also had big jumps in SOP. So it may be worth trying that breeding again. And I quite liked the traits I got with her.

When a couple of my young adult males get to breeding age I have some more choices for line breeding options.

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Last edited by Aussiewolfsister on 9/29/2014 2:59:42 AM
 Analeyn
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9/29/2014 3:46:33 AM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

I consistently breed for traits as opposed to sop. I have found that trait breeding develops a stronger line, insofar as it generally leads to greater consistency.

As much as it is promising to see Keeshonds with 9.8's in head/coat, I am trying to focus more upon the traits that fall short - forequarter, size & feet. They are significant weak points in our breed. With time those traits may be improved, but it is a long process.

In terms of low SS dogs, I tend to agree with Dragonuv. I remove any low SS dogs unless they provide a specific benefit to my kennel.


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 Small Dog Grove
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9/29/2014 10:02:36 PM reply with quote send message to Small Dog Grove Object to Post

SDG Its A Start (Uno) got a Group 4 last night! My first ever group placement. (In any kennel, in any breed!)
 Analeyn
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9/30/2014 12:45:25 AM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

Well done! happy :)
 Aussiewolfsister
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9/30/2014 2:34:06 AM reply with quote send message to Aussiewolfsister Object to Post

Congratulations happy :)
 Dragunov
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9/30/2014 3:46:17 AM reply with quote send message to Dragunov Object to Post

I attest to trait breeding. When I worked on Beaucerons, I selected for size primarily, and my sops were always highest and now that others have carried on the breed, the dogs with the best sizes are consistently coming out of my lines and not other lines. It's interesting to see the consistency of traits.

I think it's good to work on the "unimportant" traits too because it sets apart your breeding program when another one just cannot get past the greens and has to move to outside blood. The so-called unimportant traits go into the sop very much and can serve a big difference. I have seen at least .5 jump in sop in dogs with the same important traits but one had high unimportant traits.
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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9/30/2014 10:07:31 AM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by Small Dog Grove
SDG Its A Start (Uno) got a Group 4 last night! My first ever group placement. (In any kennel, in any breed!)
Congrats! happy :) Arentya glad I talked ya into Keeshonds? lol
 Winter Heart
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9/30/2014 4:05:47 PM reply with quote send message to Winter Heart Object to Post

quote
SDG Its A Start (Uno) got a Group 4 last night! My first ever group placement. (In any kennel, in any breed!)
Whoo!! Congrats! Congrats on the CDX too. happy :)


Jessica
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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9/30/2014 9:49:59 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

Gah! I officially got annoyed, decided my source breeding project dogs were a waste of dog food, gave up and FH'd them all. Now Im annoyed I spent so much on the starters.

Im going to go sulk in a corner now.
 Analeyn
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9/30/2014 10:41:17 PM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

As much as it was a difficult decision, it was likely the best one for your kennel. I too have tried to introduce diverse lines in the past, with the same result: source breeding is a time consuming, money draining suicide mission. Some kennels have achieved, and continue to achieve, great results with source breeding but I cannot say the same.

Our breed is doing very well comparative to other breeds, and our genetic lines are quite diverse too considering that our breeding pool is on the small scale.

Best of luck with your kennel, Gyspy. If you need anything please let me know.

Analeyn
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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10/1/2014 12:22:30 AM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by Analeyn
source breeding is a time consuming, money draining suicide mission.

Couldnt have said it better myself. You'd think I'd learn though, this is probably my third foray into source breeding.

AND if we do run into some genetic roadblocks, I do know a few older, inactive kennels, with 89ish studs available. (Bizzydog and Stellen)
 Spyte
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10/3/2014 10:01:19 AM reply with quote send message to Spyte Object to Post

Hi everyone! Just realized this thread was here! I am stuck.....I love the breed but just haven't produced anything that I absolutely love yet. I put all my girls up for sale and am considering bringing in new stock but then again I don't know if that is the best move either. Help?
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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10/3/2014 1:07:38 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by Spyte
Hi everyone! Just realized this thread was here! I am stuck.....I love the breed but just haven't produced anything that I absolutely love yet. I put all my girls up for sale and am considering bringing in new stock but then again I don't know if that is the best move either. Help?
Like we were talking about, Id try your girls with Analeyn's House of Cards before giving up on them. And 94.2 and 94.15 are definitely respectable, finishable SOPs, I think there just arent many bitches showing right now to compete against. If you use House of Cards, the COI might be a touch high though, i think i saw that at least Girl On The Move's sire is Bearach as well, he was also Card's. As far as bringing in new stock, well, your bitches and the one Shelhond have up for sale are the nicest Ive seen listed for sale in a few weeks, and Ive been keeping track. I dont know that you'll do better at the moment, unless it's a private sale. (I have ONE decent 94.45 bitch thats only 4 days old, so alas I dont have anything nicer to offer you).
 Spyte
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10/3/2014 2:30:47 PM reply with quote send message to Spyte Object to Post

quote
posted by Gypsy Wind Kennels
quote
posted by Spyte
Hi everyone! Just realized this thread was here! I am stuck.....I love the breed but just haven't produced anything that I absolutely love yet. I put all my girls up for sale and am considering bringing in new stock but then again I don't know if that is the best move either. Help?
Like we were talking about, Id try your girls with Analeyn's House of Cards before giving up on them. And 94.2 and 94.15 are definitely respectable, finishable SOPs, I think there just arent many bitches showing right now to compete against. If you use House of Cards, the COI might be a touch high though, i think i saw that at least Girl On The Move's sire is Bearach as well, he was also Card's. As far as bringing in new stock, well, your bitches and the one Shelhond have up for sale are the nicest Ive seen listed for sale in a few weeks, and Ive been keeping track. I dont know that you'll do better at the moment, unless it's a private sale. (I have ONE decent 94.45 bitch thats only 4 days old, so alas I dont have anything nicer to offer you).

Tried House of Cards on Girl on the Move...COI was high but not too high, still within good limits. Hopefully will get some good puppies. Might breed him to my other girl too. Guess they are coming down from the sale page for now happy :)

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The first obedience title is a CD, or "Companion Dog", which is earned through competition in the Novice obedience class.