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Author Topic : New Traits and Skills
 admin
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12/15/2011 9:17:54 PM reply with quote send message to admin Object to Post   

Based on the input from the other thread. Let me know what we should adjust/add/drop.

New Traits

Genetic and breed dependent. Will be assigned to source dogs and propagated through like we did with colors.

-Flexibility
-Stamina
-Speed

Training

Skills you will have to use sessions to train with.

-Jumps
-Tunnel
-Weave
-A-Frame
 Studio Dogs
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12/15/2011 9:40:47 PM reply with quote send message to Studio Dogs Object to Post

nice, but Im not going to start from source.
I guess I'll stay with conformation.

Im sure you'll get a flurry of new kennels openning happy :)
 admin
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12/15/2011 9:45:11 PM reply with quote send message to admin Object to Post

That's not what I meant. When I say the traits will be assigned to source dogs, I mean the source dogs way back in the pedigree. They'll be inherited through all of the generations after that.

It's the same way we did color 'after the fact'.
 Lost Hill
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12/15/2011 9:52:19 PM reply with quote send message to Lost Hill Object to Post

Jeff,
I LOVE this!

On the genetic "performance" traits are you looking for just agility traits or are we also looking ahead to traits for other events that might be added later?

 Brookrose
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12/15/2011 9:55:01 PM reply with quote send message to Brookrose Object to Post

There is also a table and dogwalk on agility courses
 TriStar Kennels
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12/15/2011 10:02:56 PM reply with quote send message to TriStar Kennels Object to Post

I think this is a good idea.

I'm not entirely sure about the flexibility one. I think perhaps something a little more along the lines of intelligence or trainability would be a better fit and would also be useful if/when other sports are added and would also be good for obedience if there are plans to revamp that to make it more challenging.

Speed and Stamina I like alot as they are good both for agility, obedience and many other dog sports.

I think it would be good to make the existing temperament and show shine have an effect on agility and obedience too. Show shine could be just how much the dogs enjoy and "sparkle" in any given event. And of course temperament is crucial to performance events.

 Wildsyde
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12/15/2011 10:21:22 PM reply with quote send message to Wildsyde Object to Post

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

Don't need stamina for agility, for the vast majority of dogs it's all over in less than a minute. My corgis typically run standard courses in 50sec, JWW in 30sec. BCs of course are faster.

Flexibility and speed are good. Flexibility cuts down on the number of yards actually run. Speed of course is speed. Show obed is good to use for trainability.

Maybe instead of "Aframe" you could do Aframe and Dogwalk, they're similar. Teeter is more different. Chute/tunnel similar enough to keep the same.
 MagicWolf
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12/16/2011 2:52:02 AM reply with quote send message to MagicWolf Object to Post

Agree, stamina is not needed for agility. Maybe instead of Aframe just put 'contact obstacles'? If there will be standard and jumpers courses then contacts (and table if added) would not apply to jumpers.

I like Flexibility, Speed, and then add a trait to Trainability/Biddability.
 griffin
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12/16/2011 5:27:42 AM reply with quote send message to griffin Object to Post

I dislike speed since it should just be a function of the size of the dog it isn't really a separate traits.

I would have drive and independence instead.

Stamina would be good if you plan to add other events but is irrelevant to agility.

I also wouldn't have jumps separate from jumping for obedience. Much of training for agility overlaps with obedience and in RL it is much easier to move between events than train up a dog from scratch.

grif,
 rhondacline
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12/16/2011 7:26:30 AM reply with quote send message to rhondacline Object to Post

quote
posted by admin
Based on the input from the other thread. Let me know what we should adjust/add/drop.

New Traits

Genetic and breed dependent. Will be assigned to source dogs and propagated through like we did with colors.

-Flexibility
-Stamina
-Speed


I am going to answer this based on the presumption that these traits will be used for all performance events - Right Now I hope that means - agility & tweaking obedience. LATER I hope it means additional events to be added. (AKC titles are available for Agility, Conformation, Coonhound Trials, Coursing, Earthdog, Field Trials, Herding, Hunting, Obedience, Rally & Tracking)

These are my ideas for traits that are genetically assigned:

Intelligence
Drive
Breed Instinct*
Independent Thinker
Biddability (Will to Please)

Flexibility
Stamina
Speed
Body Type*
Energy Level

In my mind I see this working just like conformation. Each event will weigh the traits differently.

The above are the traits I came up with, I think the key is to use traits that can be used for any/most events that might be added at later dates.

*Notes on Traits:
Breed Instinct and Body Type: these two traits are where certain breeds will get a "boost" based on the genetic predisposition for the event. Bloodhounds should do better at tracking than pugs. Whippets should do better at lure coursing than pekingese.

Sessioned traits will change with each event.

This all may be irrelevant if we're only talking about agility; but I am REALLY hoping that this is just the first in the new performance events. (Including tweaking obedience)

Rhonda
 Studio Dogs
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12/16/2011 9:26:37 AM reply with quote send message to Studio Dogs Object to Post

May I ask why you have to separate the breeds, one being better then the other? Can't we all be equal?
It's already going to be unequal due to the less popular breeds, and newer breeds if you are saying that the traits are trickled down. We are already in generation 74-75
I believe there should not be a predisposed breed trait in this sim game.

Like I thought, it should start from the source, create more kennels, create separate lines, let it start on equal grounds for all breeds.
IMO
Holly
 Maui Breeze
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12/16/2011 9:59:41 AM reply with quote send message to Maui Breeze Object to Post

How will these traits affect conformation? If you add in new traits that have to be bred with the dogs, regardless of what they are competing in, will they be "pointless" in the conformation ring and only apply to those dogs doing agility, or will they "count" in the conformation ring as well??
 Pendragon
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12/16/2011 10:15:29 AM reply with quote send message to Pendragon Object to Post

Looking at the new traits suggested:
Genetic and breed dependent. Will be assigned to source dogs and propagated through like we did with colors.

-Flexibility
-Stamina
-Speed

These should all be linked to traits already in play: FQ, HQ, TN&B and Gait. Dogs with excellent stats in the areas are going to have greater speed, stamina and flexibility - those with poor will not. Doesn't mean that they won't try to compensate with drive but at some point, structure will tell and they will start failing. Stamina is also linked to the 'Muscle tone' already sessioning in the game. Dogs needs to be fully sessioned (or beyond) to do well. No, they do not need 'stamina' per se but dogs to need to be in good overall condition to do well. Instead of 'speed', I'd like to see 'drive'.

And yes, there needs to be a breed bias. Sorry it is just a fact that a Great Dane is not as flexibile as a Golden. It is harder for the giant breeds to get down and through a tunnel or wind through weave poles.

I'm not sure what some of the posters are meaning by 'independent' versus 'trainable/biddable'. Your herding breeds are all classified as independent thinkers as this is what is needed in herding situations. By independent I mean taking a situation and based on their training, thinking through and completing a task. It is not the Golden mentalitiy that let's them learn a set exercise and do over and over. Most herding dogs will shut down. If by 'independent' they mean not bonding to the handler, that needs to be explained and has more to do with handler relationship. And yes, there should be something about Handler experience/skill.
Sessioning: 'A-frame' needs to be 'contacts'. I don't think that we need to seperate out to the 3 although each has it's challenges for some dogs. Jumping for agility isn't quite like obedience . . . they is alot more of it and is not a static excerise (handler is not standing still). Maybe a greater skill level required on the session level for agility than obedience.

Just a few thoughts
Pendragon
 Rotts Rock
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12/16/2011 10:47:00 AM reply with quote send message to Rotts Rock Object to Post

I'm so glad that agility is finally on the game!!! Actually stamina can be really useful for real life trials when a dog runs multiple times a day and runs at multiple day trials.
 griffin
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12/16/2011 12:50:28 PM reply with quote send message to griffin Object to Post

Independence looks at a problem and has different positive and negative aspects depending on the task.

Independent thinkers will try to solve the problem themselves without needing input from the handler in the context of agility this is good because they work well at a distance and can drive ahead of the handler (go faster). But it also has its downsides they are perfectly happy to go do their own thing including run what they think the course "should be" and will more easily go off-course in Agility.

For tasks like lure coursing or tracking where the handler has little input it is better if the dog is independent. However for things like retrieving where the handler has to direct the dog where to go, or doggy-dancing where the handler has to direct the dog very precisely to keep them in time with the music it is better for the dog to be less independent.

grif,
 Aerostar Afghans
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12/16/2011 1:07:06 PM reply with quote send message to Aerostar Afghans Object to Post

Instead of A-frame, you could just have a category called "contacts" which would cover teeter, A-frame and dog walk ( and possibly tables..) . Although in RL there is a little difference in training each, they are similar enough that here they could certainly be lumped together. People who want to be sticklers about the technicalities of training each can pretend to do a different contact each time they do a contact session!
 TriStar Kennels
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12/16/2011 2:59:42 PM reply with quote send message to TriStar Kennels Object to Post

I agree with Aerostar... I think lumping several obstacles together is better for the long run as I think if there are 20 more things to session for fewer people will be encouraged to join the activity.

Perhaps there should be seperate sessions for conformation, agility and obedience? Then more people would have the option to participate in all the activities.
 rhondacline
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12/16/2011 3:15:58 PM reply with quote send message to rhondacline Object to Post

quote
posted by TriStar Kennels
Perhaps there should be seperate sessions for conformation, agility and obedience? Then more people would have the option to participate in all the activities.
I agree completely - Would love to see conformation sessions and maybe "Performance Event" sessions. See how I keep leaving room for additional events to be added at a later date wink ;)
 ShootForTheMoon
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12/16/2011 3:56:43 PM reply with quote send message to ShootForTheMoon Object to Post

For agility, I like what the person said about using current traits to determine flexibility, speed, and stamina. Isn't that what those stats translate to outside the ring? Why not use them for what they're intended for.

I'm also for breed biases. In real life, great danes are not as good at agility as border collies. Why should there not be a bias?

For the future, I'm not fond of the idea of adding too many events to SD. I think what makes this site so special (and I've played before), is the fact that it is a conformation site. That is the reason why I'm back here, after trying all those games. I don't want this to turn into one of those games.
 luckydogwhisperer
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12/16/2011 3:59:35 PM reply with quote send message to luckydogwhisperer Object to Post

Agility is going to be so much fun! I agree with MagicWolf in that we should have contact obstacles, instead of just A-frame. Thanks for adding it, Jeff!


Luckydogwhisperer
 Lost Hill Deerhounds
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12/16/2011 4:27:45 PM reply with quote send message to Lost Hill Deerhounds Object to Post

quote
posted by ShootForTheMoon
For the future, I'm not fond of the idea of adding too many events to SD. I think what makes this site so special (and I've played before), is the fact that it is a conformation site.
I may be in the minority, but I would like to have the ability to earn the other titles. I would like to see my deerhounds in this kennel with conformation and coursing titles.

If the system is set up using the genetics, a dog with "titles on both ends" would mean that I am breeding a well rounded dog. Now, I'm personally not going to try for a coursing title on my collies (rhondacline kennel) - but I would like the option to try and put a herding title on those dogs. Field trials and hunting titles on the sporting breeds, etc.

IMHO if done correctly the addition of the performance events has the potential to bring in new players as well as appealing to a lot of existing players.

just my two cents
Rhonda

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The figure 8 exercise requires the team to heel in a figure 8 pattern either on or off leash. Generally two of the ring stewards will assist the judge with this exercise by acting as "posts", standing 8 feet apart, that the team walks around to form the loops of the figure 8.