.com Forum · Agility Forum

so many folks have taken the time to make such great suggestions. I wonder/hope if we will ever see agility?

Whenever Jeff gets inspired to give it a shot again. Tho I think it got a bit more complex than he expected so wasn't a quick add. If one's going to do it to make it interesting and not like obedience, need to do it right tho. Better put it off and do it better than a quick not good job.

I definitely agree Wildsyde! I'm patiently waiting, and I sincerely hope it will be great, which I'm sure it will be!

Lucky

Personality. A stubborn dog will be harder to train, a willing dog will session quicker. And don't just do it completely by breed, like make all borders willing and all yorkies stubborn. Just make more borders willing, but not all (that was just an example btw). Also have it be genetics, so two willing parents will MOST LIKELY produce a willing puppy, but not always.

As for physical traits think things like speed and endurance should be part of training, some dogs session quicker in this while others don't. Just the same as I said before.


Best of Luck!

Good morning everyone!!! I hope this message finds you all healthy and happy. Let me introduce myself first of all. I am known as Goldee with showdog.com and I just kinda stumbled accross this site on accident. l.o.l. But it looks like a lot of fun, please bear with me as I learn the ropes. Currently I am only able to use the free portion of the site until August 3rd, I am disabled and only paid monthly, and since I also have a kiddo and live animals, l.o.l. I am unable to become a full blown show dogger!!! My breed of choice will be the AMAZING HUNGARIAN VIZSLA!!! I must admit I was stunned for lack of words when I looked at the list created for "RARE BREEDS" to NOT FIND THE VIZSLA listed as a rare breed, considering that they were almost extinct twice. Maybe I was given inappropriate information. But I believed they are rare because I live in Minnesota and cannot seem to locate a kennel. I did get one (1) response from a kennel that is in Ohio, and almost had me an awesome neutered male, however it did not work out. The original owner had intended to use him as there "first STUD DOG" and discovered he had some anxiety issues. I simply asked her if she had contacted the breeder in regards to there dogs anxiety issues to find out/at least attempt to find out if the anxiety is in this dogs case a "learned behavior" or if in fact it is/has been passed on through genetics. I thought I was asking a good question, attempting to learn all I could if I were to accept this almost 2yr old male into my home. He just turned 2 and at the time we were attempting to work out a solution he WAS NOT 2 AND HIPS STILL NEEDED TO BE O.F.A.'D. Somehow the owner recinded the offer in which they graciously offered me to let me have the dog for $300.00 since I was more than willing to make the drive from Minnesota to Ohio. Since I have 25++ years of training dogs, and handling dogs people have come to me with ???'s and advice, I thought asking the few ??? I did ask not to become an issue---THERE I GO THINKING AGAIN--l.o.l. somehow she feared I would NOT NEUTER this male. It was never brought up in any of our talks,--but I would NEVER EVER pass on a trait such as that!!! So my hopes were set on a cloud, and school could not let out for the summer fast enough, when all of a sudden after she read my???? Sent me an e-mail telling me that she recinded the offer, after she told me she would NOT go back on her word--she DID JUST THAT!!! I attempted to send her an e-mail and offered to pay half the cost of the neutering if she felt better doing it before he left to come here i had no objections with that, or I would have had it done here. I was just curious and asked a question any person should check into before the final transactions. A penny for anyone's thoughts

Respectfully

Goldee

Hi Goldee, I am not sure if you have posted in the right thread as this is about agility. When you said Vizzies are listed as a rare breed did you mean on SD or in real life?
Here in the UK they are not a rare breed and their popularity is growing at an alarming rate as they are not suitable for the every day pet home,they need firm but patient training and a job to do, be it agility, gundog work obedience, working trials or similar.
They have not being split into show v working as have labs and spaniels and hopefully never will be. They are an amazing breed of dog but not for eveyone, we have 2 a 7 year and 10 month old. the 7 year olds niche is agility although not as fast as a BC more accurate and listens.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

Sue

Would love to see classes for obedience AND agility as very different. If Flyball could be added too that would be interesting.

There's other trials that could be added, but would have to allow sessioning for them...
I'd love to see Sledding for all those sledding breeds, including those not officiall on the list here, but often seen as sled dogs, ie AKK, Timber dog, Samayod etc
Herding classes for the pastrol group would be nice, as would some form of guarding training.
There are all these classes out there that some breeds need to pass to become a supreme champion.
Its also something to do with original kennel dogs once been used in the breeding program or not good enough to show. Could be good at other things naturally...
Including something like stats for the different types of non-conformation classes could be good too, as some dogs look great but don;t have the ability to perform breed function!

Say something like the following;
Natural Herding talent
Natural Guarding Talent
Natural Retrieval Talent
Natural Tracking Talent
Natural Pulling Talent

Then the abilites for the different classes could be something like;
Agility; weave pole, tunnel, jumps, seesaw, A-frame
Flyball; run out, hurdles, pedal/plate activation, catch, return,
Sledding; start, stop, left, right, speed
Retrieval; send out, find in water, find in grassland, find in wooded, return
Tracking; through water, through woodland, through grassland, indication, determine scent
Herding; send away, split, pen, run in, hold
Heelwork to music; highstep, circle, hind leg walk, handler focus, tricks
Obedience; pull out all the obedience stuff and keep it separate from other types.
Guarding/Attack; I'm not sure about this one... but something like the trials German shepherds need to take?
(Kept listings to 5 ideas...)

Adding new class types is something that could be interesting to do.
If it happened maybe move the trainable stats on to a separate page for the dog? Something like "Training" which would include its Conformation looks etc.
This would mean more genetic stats could be included on the first page.
These values wouldn't play a part in the genetic value for the dog, but would be determined in the same way as other values, as at present.

Only thng this could mean, would be the creation of crossbreeds to succeed better in some classes, which might not be such a bad thing in some ways?
Cross breeds could only compete in NON conformation classes. Only crossbreeds of same type could compete in certain classes, ie Australia Shepherd cross whippet couldn't compete in herding, but a As cross border collie could.

just some ideas of my own...
em-j

Just an Idea: but it seems to me there is enough performance-stuff to warrant a whole other game-site, pehaps with the option to export/import dogs to/from SD via a special shared for-sale page, or via family accounts or by linking accounts accross the games. That way SD won't get cluttered up.

ETA: that way cross-breeds could be permitted in the performance-dogs site but forbidden in show-dogs.

ETA2: You could also then have a "translation function" so that performace related traits are linked to conformation traits, for instance if a breed is supposed to be aloof and independent but a certain sport favours handler focus, dogs bred in preformance-dogs to be handler focused would have a low temperament score when they are moved back to showdogs... Similar things could be done for size (so breeding a small BC for agility is penalized in the show ring) and other characteristics.

grif,

The idea of linked sites is interesting.

Beyond ShowDog, perhaps there could be "dual" registered Thoroughbreds and QuarterHorses in TrophyHorse and ShowHorse so that my dud race horse might make an excellent EnglishPleasure horse, and such.

The "translation" procedure might require a lot of thought. Not sure . . .

I would prefer not to include crossbreds though in either case. Crossbred dogs are permitted in real show performance events but I do not believe any RL dog register would promote cross breeding. I don't think I would necessarily oppose it depending on the implementation but I would not be able to support it.

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posted by GaylanStudio9

I would prefer not to include crossbreds though in either case. Crossbred dogs are permitted in real show performance events but I do not believe any RL dog register would promote cross breeding. I don't think I would necessarily oppose it depending on the implementation but I would not be able to support it.

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Deliberate Cross-breds are normal in performance dogs:
Competitive Sledding (rarely do you see a full team of purebreds, most are "Alaskan Huskies" which are a mix of many breeds)
Flyball -> APBT x BCs are become quite common and I have seen breeders advertising these specifically for sport
Agility -> depending on where mini-Aussies which are often crosses are common, around me JRT x BC are being produced specifically for Agility
Herding -> Many working BC registries are open to crossbreds
Labradoodles were originally for guide dogs

grif,

Allowing them is not the same as encouraging/promoting them like anything else it would just be another strategy available. Although I agree care would have to be taken with how it would be implemented so it is not a clear advantage.

why

More trials, please!

As much as I love working crosses (lurchers 4 lyfe), I don't think they belong in this game. I think they would take a lot of work to implement, would make a substantial number of people ragequit, and would lead to tons of new players asking why they can't enter their ChiWeenie in a show.

So I think that if the main goal of this game is to be as real as possible then there should be breed bias with breeds like BC and Aussies doing better at agility then breeds like IGs and Bulldogs. With that said I also think that people who do get agility titles on breeds that may not be normally good at agility get a higher prestige rating then people competing with breeds that do. There should be separate traits for performance events similar to how it is on showhorse.com. People are going to start breeding for performance traits and there will be seprate lines for performance and conformation similar to what it is like in RL, along with people who will try to breed for both. I think it could be an added challenge to the game to have dogs with both titles for champions and agility. These are just my thoughts on it. I compete in agility and conformation in RL and am excited to see agility here in SD.

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posted by Aerostar Afghans
Being an agility competitor in RL, I am really excited that agility is being added. There are so many options. Below are some suggestions, based on real life. If you keep it simple, hopefully it will stir some excitement and become as addictive as the real sport.

1. An real agility dog must be able to stay with the handler on the course, stay on the table, come when called if it goes off course. So perhaps right now, a dog that was sessioned in these three things ( heel off lead, sit or down stay, and recall) would have added advantage. Obviously much more training goes into agility, but you could start with this to get things going. Later you could add contacts, weaves and jump sessioning. This would be simple and would not require too much extra sessioning. If you have too much extra sessioning, people will not be able to afford agility as well as whatever they are doing now. It should be fun, and easy to get hooked on.
2. Dogs could be divided by breed as to height. You could take the standard's average breed height and assign all dogs of that breed to a particular "real" jump height ( 4,8,12,16,20,24,26) OR even simpler, you could just have a small, medium, or large group with breeds assigned by relative height. Although this wouldn't be realistic, it would be better than everyone in the same group, as more people would win and so more people would get involved and be successful.
3.Physical Characteristics of the dogs which would affect running and jumping ( forefront, hind, top, Temperment, feet??) might be calculated by some formula to determine fitness & speed relative to the others of the same size. Coat, head, etc would not count.
4. HANDLING. Handling should be by the owner. Very few agility folks have handlers, and the dogs develop skill by being frequent practice with the same handler (usually owner) . If there is any way that you can keep track of everytime the dog is handled by the owner, perhaps a total of conformation, obedience and agility, and they get better each time as their relationship with the handler is stronger. sessioning a dog could also count toward quality teambuilding time...This should be important.
5. Dogs could enter agility the same day as obedience or conformation. At real shows I consider it a bonus when I can do multiple things at the same show and pay for a hotel once!

Bottom lines-
1. dogs are entered into a predetermined "class" determined by relative breed sizes.
2. There can be Novice A & B Open and Excellent A and B, as in a real show. Novice A would require no sessioning to enter. It would be to get people involved. Novice B would require minimal sessioning. Open would require a novice title ( 3 qualifying scores) Excellent would require an open title and Excellent B would require an Excellent title.
3. You would have to have formulas for calculating the success of the dogs. I would suggest this being some algorithm of: fitness of dog( from selected conformation ratings), training of dog ( from selected obedience sessions or added agility sessions) and handler bonding ( based on how much the dog has been sessioned, trained, handled and shown by the handler)(it would be possible, but not necessary to add a factor regarding the success of the breed in real life in agility- ie border collies might have an advantage over English bull dogs...)
4. The dogs in each class would be ranked according to your algorithm.
A certain percentage of dogs that met the minimum requirements for that class would qualify each time.This % should be relatively high.

Titles would be awarded as in AKC according to qualifying runs, etc.

I don't really care how it is done as long as it is easily accessible, especially as you get it going, so that many folks get involved. That is what will make it fun.
Good luck! This is exciting!

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Aerostar I am curious, in real life as owners generally train and handle their own dogs, making a stronger bond, does it affect conformation handing as well? For judges that prefer owner handlers?

What ever happened to agility on SD?