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Author Topic : Testicles Descending in Puppies
 hi-fi
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8/8/2009 9:38:11 PM reply with quote send message to hi-fi Object to Post   

Just found out that Yellow boy only has one testicle down right now at 8 weeks. (Yellow is the puppy I was going to be bringing home Tuesday) And all the others have both down.
Should I take him anyway and see? She said in her last litter she had a puppy's take a while to come down, but it finally did.
What should I do? It is there, it just isn't down. Should I allow him the 6 months for it to come down or will I be forced to take the other puppy home?
Ohh noooo.
 .Envoy.
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8/8/2009 9:40:46 PM reply with quote send message to .Envoy. Object to Post

I would take him. Massage it down everyday. And I heard that Zinc and Vitamin E work well for this aswell. happy :)
 Grandiose
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8/8/2009 9:44:41 PM reply with quote send message to Grandiose Object to Post

Pull it down every day until it stays there. Sounds gross...but its better than letting it just sit there and have the ring close when it easily could have been down. A lot of boys play "yo-yo" until that ring closes anyways. I check my boy puppies morning and night until they are about 6 months old and make sure both are pulled down. My husband thinks its hilarious.
 hi-fi
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8/8/2009 9:49:01 PM reply with quote send message to hi-fi Object to Post

She said it's in his groin. Is that where they start?

I groom a toy poodle and I discovered a "lump" in his thigh.... then I realized he only has one testicle descended. I thought "wow what's that doing way down there!"

Is there a "better" place for it to be, for a better chance of coming down?

 Grandiose
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8/8/2009 10:12:25 PM reply with quote send message to Grandiose Object to Post

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Hmmmmm...without this going from "G" to "Maybe the Kiddos shouldnt read this"...most "yo-yo" testicles are found up in the groin/inner thigh. The place you would want it to be to know its going to stay down is in its proper place in the sack. Sorry, couldnt help myself happy :) But, seriously. There are a couple things you can do. If it really worries you, talk to your vet, and pull them down, and have them put a stitch in there to keep them in place [ETA: before the "thats against AKC rules" people jump me...until the sack is stretched out enough and the testes are heavy enough to stay on thier own...In my experience it has been issues with the sack not being big enough to accomidate the two testies, and thier own lack of weight that allows them to yo-yo up and down]. Or, and this has yet to fail me, just pull them down every day. Multiple times a day if you have to. I flip the little guy on his back in my lap and make them lay there while I pull them down...teaches them to be calm while they are being handled as well. I play with thier feet, check their teeth, etc...and they think its all fun happy :)
Most of the time, if you can feel where it is, you wont have a problem keeping it down. Its the ones that you cant find that become the issues, and I would pass on a puppy you cant find two for.
And whos to say that the boys that have them down now, wont suck them up next week...and decide they wanna play yo-yo as well!!
 Fantasias
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8/8/2009 10:22:30 PM reply with quote send message to Fantasias Object to Post

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You guys are funnyhappy :) I do the exact same massage from a couple hours old until they "stay"happy :) I was brought up in Italian Greyhounds, they are notorious for this issue, one learns quickly when raised in this situation to look and massage right awaylaugh :D Sometimes you even get a couple puppies whose stuff you can see from birthhappy :)happy :) I like those oneslaugh :D

Like Grandiose has stated, flip them over, push 'em downhappy :) Maybe folic acid also, although I think that has to be before they are born, I have never tried supplements, only working on them daily, multiple times a daywink ;)


Wendy

The undescended "one" should be towards the belly button, in that area of the groin where the thing meets the belly, not down towards his hockwink ;) And if there's a chance of working at down, they pop into place very easily after flipping over. I've even seen some judges allow to flip puppies to do this!
 Wildsyde
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8/8/2009 10:24:44 PM reply with quote send message to Wildsyde Object to Post

I'd take the other boy instead of taking the risk. And why would you want a boy that might have a genetic propensity to pass something like this on? Sometimes they drop, sometimes you're wasting your time and you'd be stuck with nothing but a pet.
 hi-fi
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8/8/2009 10:24:56 PM reply with quote send message to hi-fi Object to Post

I didn't mean to sound stupid, LOL. I just imagine they would be where they should be... Only not DOWN. I guess when I read it is in his groin, I remembered the poodle I groom, and thought "rut rough" I don't think it's supposed to be there.... I hear groin, or thigh... I picture it's in his leg, far from where it should be.
Thanks for your help.
I don't think my vet deals with many show dogs, I could only imagine the look they'd give me if I set up an appointment to have him stitched so I can make sure I can show him...
 Fantasias
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8/8/2009 10:30:36 PM reply with quote send message to Fantasias Object to Post

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quote
posted by Wildsyde
I'd take the other boy instead of taking the risk. And why would you want a boy that might have a genetic propensity to pass something like this on? Sometimes they drop, sometimes you're wasting your time and you'd be stuck with nothing but a pet.
If this is such an awful thing (they only need one to reproduce anyways) why does UK allow for there to only be one? This has always bugged me...


Why should the lesser quality dog be shown and bred just because he is "complete"? We have had to neuter and place a few very top quality IGs in both mind and body because of this, it is silly, though I full well know it is the rule...


I do not mean any argument, as in anything competitive, there are many opinionswink ;)


Wendy

 hi-fi
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8/8/2009 10:33:43 PM reply with quote send message to hi-fi Object to Post

I guess I didn't know it was a very bad thing for a little puppy's to not be down right away. I thought it was sometimes normal right?
 Fantasias
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8/8/2009 10:35:30 PM reply with quote send message to Fantasias Object to Post

quote
posted by hi-fi
I guess I didn't know it was a very bad thing for a little puppy's to not be down right away. I thought it was sometimes normal right?

I don't think it's bad, just sometimes you get lucky with noticeable birth testeswink ;) I get worried by 8 weeks...


Wendy
 Crow2008
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8/8/2009 11:49:30 PM reply with quote send message to Crow2008 Object to Post

that is called "cryptorchidism" and it's a genetic defect... even if you keep him and "massage" the testicle down, the dog (if bred) can and will pass it on to his offspring. depending on where the testicle is, it can cause testicular cancer and that's why it's not reccomended to breed dogs born with cryptorchidism.

I work at an animal shelter and we see animals that are cryps ALL THE TIME. we have seen one dog with a gigantic tumor where his testicle was supposed to be and it was in his abdomen, and where it was supposed to be was a tumor the size of a grapefruit.

here's a link to a picture (I hope it's not too graphic) where it shows where the testicle is "supposed" to be, with the not descended one, where I assume your puppy has his.

i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/neoalltheway/350px-Inguinal_cryptorchid_1.jpg

honestly, I would pass any puppy from that litter, (if my intention was to show and breed) as any of the puppies (male or female) will pass this genetic defect onto offspring. and the onesnot born with it, will still pass onto THEIR offpsring and so on.

any crypt dogs can be neutered and live normal lives as fine pets, so only for showing and breeding this ould be an issue.

hope this helps...

 Fantasias
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8/9/2009 12:29:16 AM reply with quote send message to Fantasias Object to Post

Indeed, it is genetic, unfortunatelysad :( The pic posted above is where the undescended ones start, we have used continual massage to get them down, sometimes it works, sometimes no....

If the puppy you wants ends up with both down, take him, there's no reason not to!

Wendy
 Kansas Country Kennels
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8/9/2009 12:30:54 AM reply with quote send message to Kansas Country Kennels Object to Post

I bought my beagle that I was supposed to show in juniors a couple years ago, and he was supposead to be great quality. His testicle never dropped and we could have exchanged him due to the defect, but we loved him too much by then. This is why I have never gotten in the show ring. We ended up neutering him.

It's a major bummer.
 Finnridge
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8/9/2009 12:47:27 AM reply with quote send message to Finnridge Object to Post

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Sometimes they do come later. We had one puppy, that has only left testicle when he was 8 weeks old. He got the other one about 1-2 months later, at 4 months he had them both on the correct place. happy :) No help, no pulling, no stiching. He was a pet anyway so we just waited and saw, what happened.

I've heard that folic acid delays the testicle descending?

I'd say it depends on how much you like this puppy. If you think he's a good puppy but not a perfect one, "nothing special", a puppy that you could get an "equal" later, pass. But if he's everything you ever hoped for, very nice character, excellent once-in-a-lifetime pedigree, no cryptorchidism in the family, and you are willing to take the risk, and try it out... Go for it. Ask the breeder if there has been cryptorchids in the family. And is there many cryptorchids in the breed? If she had "slow" ones in the dam's last litter, this one might be just slow too... or not.

I had no problem using a stud with a little late descended testicle, if it had descended on it's own. But helping them too much, with stiches for example, sounds a little "fishy" to me. The condition is mostly genetic, so pulling, stiches etc will not change the biggest reason for the problem: genetics. However, this is a problem that is found in all breeds and probably all lines (just more frequent in others), so I would not "wipe out" the entire litter because of one cryptorchid.
 Trident
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8/9/2009 3:18:26 AM reply with quote send message to Trident Object to Post

I would give him a little bit more time, at only 8 weeks he is just a baby and their testicles are sooo tiny. It would be different if you were asking about a 4 month old puppy.
 fluttervale2
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8/9/2009 6:34:43 AM reply with quote send message to fluttervale2 Object to Post

It's very much a genetic trait, so if you are looking to purchase him as a valuable addition to your breeding program, that must be considered. It might be worth it to you, especially if this line offers everything else you need and is not known for undescended testicles. However, if the line IS known for this, I warn you now--it is not an easy problem to "fix" in your line.

If you are purchasing him just to play around in the show ring and do not intend to breed from him for yourself, it doesn't really matter either way.
 krisk
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8/9/2009 10:49:55 AM reply with quote send message to krisk Object to Post

This to me is where you have to trust your breeder (not always easy with some I know). But what does the breeder recommend. I have run into a couple of monorcids - one testical pulled up (no cryptorcids -both testicals pulled up). Has the testical been down at all on it's own? I have known a few pups who have yo-yo'd and generally most of them who had them down naturally will come down again in GSDs(not always, but odds are in your favor).

If you decide to take the risk, do you have a guarentee on the pup of being show quality? This usually means that if the testical doesn't come down you are intitled to a replacement pup. And if such a thing happens are you the type of person who could give up a puppy you have had for awhile? Is the breeder planning on having another litter you are interested in down the road if need be?

If your are not prepared to help the testical if need be, or to give up the pup if it doesn't turn out, or settle for a pup you can't show? Then either consider the brother, or wait for a different litter. Patience is one of the hardest things to do with dogs in RL (why can't they mature so I can decide in 10 days like the game wink ;) ).

Have you gone and seen them yet? Maybe you will like the other boy in person anyway.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

krisk
 Aim High Salukis
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8/9/2009 11:18:23 AM reply with quote send message to Aim High Salukis Object to Post

Giacomo's came down right at 8wks. His brother's didn't come down until 14 weeks, he was sold as a pet.. and his grandfather's came down at 11 weeks. Gordons are also notorious for this. I'd talk to the breeder, see what your options are for returning the puppy and getting the other if the testicle doesn't come down, and like the other suggestions stated, try to 'work with it' :P
 hi-fi
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8/9/2009 12:08:09 PM reply with quote send message to hi-fi Object to Post

Thanks all for your help.
I myself am not a breeder... I just want to get out there again.
Both puppies are very nice, so I'll be bringing home someone nice next week.
 House of Wolves Kennels
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8/9/2009 2:46:37 PM reply with quote send message to House of Wolves Kennels Object to Post

I've only seen this problem a few times with Pei, Finn's son Aladdin had this issue but we know that the dam's side has had this problem before. It was in the right place just had yet to descend at eight weeks, by week ten he was correct and both were descended. We were considering altering him when the breeder decided to wait it out and see if it would descend on its own. Don't know if he was a true crypt since it was just above the sack. It is a interesting thing though.

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